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INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE BEHN
Date of Interview: June 27, 2004 in Fort Nelson, British
Columbia
Interviewer Hank Bridgeman
Transcriber: Case Mond
Hank Bridgeman:
Okay. Every interview I start
off by asking you your name and spelling it for me.
George Behn:
My name is George Behn.
Hank Bridgeman:
Behn is B.A...
George Behn:
B.E.H.N.
Hank Bridgeman:
B.E.H.N. So how old are you,
George?
George Behn:
I’m 80.
Hank Bridgeman:
So you were 16 when the
Alaska Highway thing was going on?
George Behn:
Yeah, I was 16 and 17 in
there.
Hank Bridgeman:
So where were you living at
the time?
George Behn:
Down at the Old Fort. The
original Fort Nelson.
Hank Bridgeman:
So here you are. You’re
living up here and all of a sudden all these soldiers show up.
George Behn:
Oh yeah. You noticed on that
monument that was unveiled yesterday, those three fellows, three soldiers
standing beside my dog team, and those were the first three that arrived down
at the Old Fort. But they had their camp just down here where the quarter
master was, and... I was... lived there all my life, born and raised there. I
was living with Mr. and Mrs. George, the white people, okay. They had a
boarding house and a store, a general store, you know. They’re Americans
too. They’d been in Canada many years, prior to this all the excitement
that went on. You know, its... For us people, native people, we... it’s
something out of this world when you see all these... the Americans, you know,
the soldiers, the young men, you know. It could be... all the equipment, you
see, you know. Oh... And they’re playing [?] and oh, building the airport,
oh.
Hank Bridgeman:
It would have been kind of a
shock. All of a sudden all these guys show up.
George Behn:
Yeah, well... Not really, but,
you know. It was something new to us, you know. The people used to drive dog
teams... that was all the transportation back them days. We’d drive up
from the Old Fort, which is about... I say... by way, road, dog team trail,
maybe about 15 miles. We used to watch the cats working, you know. All these
guys setting up. And oh, it just. It is just like watching TV today, you know.
It was really interesting.
Hank Bridgeman:
So you had dog teams,
right?
George Behn:
Yeah.
Hank Bridgeman:
So that was kinda... that was
the mode of transportation in the winter...
George Behn:
Yeah, that’s right. In the
summertime, some people used pack dogs. We used the all year round, eh. And
horses, very few horses. It was getting more all the time. When the highway
went through, a lot of the horses, you know from the South eh. You probably
seen them on the pictures, you know. Just lots of them.
Hank Bridgeman:
So what was your job? You got
hired to do a job. You got hired as a guide, eh?
George Behn:
Well, I started out, I was
bored. A contractor, he borrowed me from Mr. and Mrs. George, you know, for a
few days. And this guy, he didn’t even know how to pack a horse. I
didn’t realize that, you know. But I knew... A thing like that was really
interesting to me, you know. And I just studied that, you know. And I knew how
and I went with him. And we went to Fort Nelson and we camped at Mile 40, just
past Kledo. It was 11 o’clock at night when we stopped. And four
o’clock in the morning, we’re on the road again, you know. We caught
up to the reconnaissance crew. There was... The main guide were Charlie
McDonald.
George Behn:
He’s from up there. He
lives up there year round, eh. And he had that section. And Archie Gardener,
from the Old Fort, had the other one. And I filled in little party here and
there. So I was with the marking the centre line, eh. I met one of the
daughters here, the head surveyor’s, yesterday. You know, it made me feel
good to talk to these people. You know, it made me just like I was... like I
was doing the job, you know. It make a person feel good, just talking about
these things.
Hank Bridgeman:
It brought it all back.
George Behn:
Yeah. It was three generations,
I think. This Sergeant Gras’s daughter, and her daughter, and that
daughter’s daughter. So there was... I think it was three generations. So
I used to work with them, and... in my spare time, okay. When we’re not
using the horses. I just checked them in the morning and I’d go with them
during the day.
Hank Bridgeman:
So, describe to me kinda
like... a typical day, what that was like. You’d get up in the morning,
you get the horses ready, right?
George Behn:
Yeah, well they... when hauling
supplies or whatever, eh. And the communication was bad and the transportation
was bad, because, you know, a flood was on at that time too. And we... The main
camp, the 35th Engineers, they were at Kledo Creek. They were crossing on the
pontoon bridge. And the next two, three miles, in the flood plain, the Muskwa,
that was flooded, eh. And, oh boy. And I go as far as I can. And from there...
One spot I waited two days, you know, to supplies come from quarter master was
down here in town there... Two days I waited. And finally one small cat came
through. I believe it was a D4, you know, crawling around in the bushes, you
know. And I’ve seen three big ones, D8’s, stuck right in the mud, you
know, right over the track, the mud, eh. And I think that guy, Chester, is
here, he’s one of these cats, eh. So when I got back, about one in the
morning, maybe a little later, with the supplies what they brought, and they
had those big loafs of bread like this. I don’t know how many of those, we
had. And four of those guys, as soon as I come in, even that early, you know,
and they just tied right into it, you know. We were eating hot cakes three
times a day.
Hank Bridgeman:
Wow. Is that good, or were
you getting tired of hot cakes?
George Behn:
Well, we had no choice, you
know. With me, because I’m brought up here in this country, you know, I
knew how to rough it, you know. And even for me it was pretty hard. But these
young fellows, you know, those soldiers, you know, maybe some of them had
experience. But I had a feeling that they just came out of the cities, you
know, and went, you know. But they went through a lot. But, no complaint,
nothing. They just did their job and it was really... I felt pretty bad about
it at times, you know.
Hank Bridgeman:
Because it must have been
interesting, because here’s these guys coming up here. They have no bush
experience, right?
George Behn:
Yeah, that’s right.
Hank Bridgeman:
And then there’s you who
has a fair bit of, you know... You’re born in the bush. It must have been
quite a contrast working with these guys. What was that like?
George Behn:
We got along with them really
well, you know. After the [ ] Even as young as I was, you know. They just...
They listened to what I had to say, you know. Like, for instance, one time,
they... I forget... They... One of the corporals, and one of the other guys,
[Stevenson] was his name... And they came in and they said “Well, we have
to go back.” So they asked me to go with them.
George Behn:
And I did. Well, on foot, eh. I
went with them and they spent three days in there before, prior to that. But I
went with them and took some shortcuts, you know, So we got the information
that they wanted, in a day. And I knew they... I knew that country... well,
born and raised... like a squirrel or whatever, you know. I knew every bit of
it. But it was strange to me there, but I’m used to the bush anyway.
Hank Bridgeman:
You’d know your way
around. Um... What... Okay, now you worked... What about the winter? What was
that like?
George Behn:
What’s that?
Hank Bridgeman:
What was the winter like?
George Behn:
Winter?
Hank Bridgeman:
Yeah.
George Behn:
Well, the winter... We had some
severe cold weather. A lot of snow and a whole bit, eh. It’s... Well,
since that time to today, it’s really different, you know,
temperature-wise. I don’t think we got more than 35 Celsius last winter,
and maybe 40. Only for a few days and it warmed up again. So, I guess... A lot
of people talk about global warming and stuff, you know, and... There’s
something wrong.
Hank Bridgeman:
Yeah, something is definitely
wrong.
George Behn:
Yeah, there’s something
happening.
Hank Bridgeman:
It was a lot colder back
then.
George Behn:
Yeah. Oh, you bet ya.
Hank Bridgeman:
So what was that like? You
are more acclimatized to this country, but those guys had never been in
temperatures like that.
George Behn:
Well these boys that I was with,
the 648, you know, Reconnaissance Group, they’re pretty well dressed well,
for them... back in them days. Not like today, you know, insulated everything.
Just the common good stuff, you know. And, of course, in the winter time, we
wore moccasins and they wore leather boots, you know, whatever it was, you
know. They got along well.
Hank Bridgeman:
What kind of pay did you
make? What kind of money did you make? What did they pay you?
George Behn:
Well, the contractor gets the
money. And I believe I got five dollars a day.
Hank Bridgeman:
Was that good money, at that
time?
George Behn:
Oh yeah, well, you know, to this
day... Well, with the Indian people, we had no value of money at all. Today,
you know, if I had hung on to the money that I made, you know, I’d be a
rich old man. But I got nothing. In one hand and out off this one, you know.
It’s always been like that. The value of money, you know, it’s...
People never complained about the wages, or whatever, eh. Even the oil
exploration days, you know, 1947, 48, and 49, I got five dollars a day from
filling up petroleum, you know, and work all the hours you want, but the pay
doesn’t move at all. They won’t figure.
Hank Bridgeman:
Still five dollars a day.
George Behn:
In 1950, I went to work for
Mobil Oil, and they paid me eight dollars a day. And that was pretty good. Of
course, back them days, dollar for dollar...
Hank Bridgeman:
I remember, I mean, I got my
first job... I started work my first job when I was 16, and that was... that
was 1966, I made a dollar an hour. So that was eight dollars a day like that.
So I imagine way back there, five dollars a day was pretty good money.
George Behn:
You bet ya.
Hank Bridgeman:
Was it fun for you? Was the
whole experience, was that fun for you? A 16-year-old guy...
George Behn:
I really enjoyed it, you know,
because, being with those soldiers, you know, and... I really enjoyed it. I
kinda... I overstayed my time, but, you know, I kinda felt pretty bad when I
left them, eh. And, this other fellow here, Garnet that you met, he replaced
me. So I went back to my old job. And they kinda were my guardians, you know.
Mr. and Mrs. George, you know.
George Behn:
They done a lot for me, you
know. What little experience I got, you know, in the white man’s world,
you know. I got some experience, good experience from them, you know. Like
schooling. I never went to school because there was no facility. But I worked
with the girls that worked for them, you know, after hours. It all depends how
tired they were. I used to study with them at night, eh. Even after I was
married, you know, I used to go to the teacher and get some school book for a
week. I used to study by the campfire, in the winter time. So, that’s
where I learned to read and write a bit, and eh...
Hank Bridgeman:
Did you know Chester at the
time? (refering to Chester Russel?)
George Behn:
Chester?
Hank Bridgeman:
Yeah.
George Behn:
Well no, not by the name. But,
you know, there were so many of the, you know, milling around, you know. And of
course me, being a little old Indian coming out of the bush and among these
civilized people, you know. And, eh, kinda shy, but once I get in with them,
heck, no limit to it, you know.
Hank Bridgeman:
I can imagine that.
There’s a huge cultural difference. But you’re all young guys and
you’re a young guy. You got a bunch of young guys together... Yeah.
George Behn:
But I remember some of those
names real well, you know.
Hank Bridgeman:
So you made some, made some
friendships through there...
George Behn:
Yeah. Like Chester, I never got
to know him until he was here a few years ago. And I got to know him, eh. And
we talked about, you know, where we were and so on, you know. And some of the
pictures he had, I was there, you know. Not in the picture, but I was...
present location.
Hank Bridgeman:
Do you remember, what was the
funniest thing that happened when this was all going on? Do you remember
something that just broke you up?
George Behn:
Well, the camp was at 335 Kledo,
Kledo Creek, Kledo River. And the main camp was on our west bank, on the Fort
Nelson side. And we were down on a flat on the opposite side of the river. And
eh, they were putting in pontoon bridges and so on, you know. And there was a
heck of a commotion going on at the camp up there so I had to go over there and
see. They had a bear up a tree right in the centre of the camp. You see that in
the pictures along the way. One guy was gonna push it down... push a cat... get
a cat to push it down. And the officer stopped him, said “No let him come
down on his own.” And that bear don’t stay up a tree very long,
because it, you know. If it got limbs and stuff on it, it had been different,
you know. But that bear had to come down. And you know, you take... lots of men
there. When that bear hit the ground, and it took off, it didn’t give a
damn, if tens... people standing in the way. People just falling over the
place, you know, and that bear took off. That’s the funniest thing we
seen. (laughs)
Hank Bridgeman:
What was the worst thing that
happened?
George Behn:
The worst thing that happened,
doing the job, I was coming in with horses pick up supplies. And then, like I
said, the river was high. Steamboat Creek was, you know, bank to bank.
There’s no other way getting across. So, being young, so I just rode my
saddle horse in and the two pack horses behind me. And where the road came in
the other side, well, the current took us down and we went down three bends on
the creek before we come ashore. It really, give a person a funny feeling, you
know. I was feeling like bailing off the horse, eh. But I thought I better not,
because, you know, the horse, there’d be no controlling, eh.
Hank Bridgeman:
Yeah. Wow. You’re
loosing your microphone there. We might as well stop for a sec.
Hank Bridgeman:
Take two. Um... What about
the food? Like we talked a little bit about those pancakes, but when
you’re out on the trail, some of the guys were saying there wasn’t a
whole lot of food.
George Behn:
Quite right there. And, they...
You know, they’d been out there for two, three weeks, there, and, you
know, and the transportation was bad, you know. Getting the stuff from here, a
certain point, but there was a gap you can’t get across and so on, you
know. Like I said, you know, we ate hot cakes three times a day, and eh... But
we did get some [C] ration, you know. And those boys, they didn’t seems to
complain about that, you know. But to me it was, you know, that was a meal. We
had hash, oh, sandwich spread or whatever, and biscuits, you know... harder
than heck, but you know, but edible. And some hard candy in there, and I think
there was five cigarettes in there, and a package of juice that you could mix.
It was quite all right. And eh... but we caught some rabbits. I’m used to
snaring rabbits anyway, you know. Well all the trappers had, otherwise you
would never survive. I used to set snares, you know, in the evening, and go
through it in the morning and we had maybe half a dozen rabbits. And, I’ll
clean ‘m and roast ‘m to the campfire. (laughs)
Hank Bridgeman:
So they loved you. You would
get some fresh meat for them.
George Behn:
Yeah.
Hank Bridgeman:
Neat. So you were basically
blazing trail, right?
George Behn:
What’s that?
Hank Bridgeman:
You were blazing trail,
right?
George Behn:
Yeah, well, they had surveyors,
running a plan table. And, where this... you could see this station to station,
you know. But when you get in the bush, like out here, you went by the sound.
You know, they have, here, the line cut to here, and maybe you’re four or
five hundred feet over there, and you went by the sound and you shout, eh. And
they take a bearing and you mark that place and you blaze a trail to this
point, and cut that line out, and then the surveyor takes his sites and he move
up and just on and on.
Hank Bridgeman:
So you kinda clear the bush,
so that they could set up their survey...
George Behn:
Yeah.
Hank Bridgeman:
So how did you mark the
trail?
George Behn:
What is that?
Hank Bridgeman:
How did you mark the trail so
that the cats knew where to go.
George Behn:
Mark the trail?
Hank Bridgeman: Yeah.
George Behn:
We had some ribbon, but mostly
blazing, because, you know, they... all these people coming up here... not too
many back them days, ribbons eh. So we had a bit of red cloth and stuff, you
know, but we blazed the trees, eh. And that’s how we... I remember one
point, we went this way, around, just about... even with the camp. The camp, I
would say, we... oh heck, maybe half a mile, over here is where we started
before, see. And we were going this way, making a big loop here. And I told
Sergeant eh, Gras, I said “You know, we just go right across here. Our
camp is just across the little valley there.” “No,” he said,
“we better stay on our trail.” But I said “No,” I said,
“you look at it.” So I climbed a tree, you know, and I could see the
smoke. So I said “You come up here and look at it.” So he looked at
it and he said “by golly, you’re right.” So, I led them through
to the camp. It only took us about 20 minutes or so, maybe half an hour, and we
were home.
George Behn:
And after that, you know, they
followed me. You know, they figured I was a pretty good navigator, you know.
Yeah, because I lived in the bush all my life, you know. And I had to leave
them, you know. I kinda felt pretty bad. I went to Steamboat Mountain with
them, when I came back, 335, and I had three crippled horses. So I led those
horses back. I made it from 335 to Airport in one day. And, it was a long day
for me, I mean, for anybody, you know, walking.
Hank Bridgeman:
Sorry, I have to move my
camera, because the sun is starting to...
George Behn:
Yeah.
Hank Bridgeman:
So... Pretty well... Tell me,
tell me your favourite story.
George Behn:
What is that?
Hank Bridgeman:
Tell me your favourite
story.
George Behn:
Oh heck. Well, every bit of it
is, you know, the experience I have is a story, you know, is really, you know,
really interesting. It really makes me feel good just to even think about it,
you know. Does it matter any other stories?
Hank Bridgeman:
Anything you want to tell me.
Your favourite story. The one that you like to tell the most.
George Behn:
I like to tell them all.
Hank Bridgeman:
I know, but your favourite
one.
George Behn:
Interesting... the experience I
have was... I was guiding for Sheffield, an outfitting... in the Tuchodi
area.
Hank Bridgeman:
Okay, is this the Alaska
Highway?
George Behn:
Well, no, no, this is a
different story. Oh you want the Alaska Highway?
Hank Bridgeman:
It’s gotta be about the
Alaska Highway.
George Behn:
Oh Okay. Okay. Well, you know,
traveling with those people, you know, that is really interesting for me, you
know. To think back on those things, you know, it makes me feel good, you know.
Everything was good up to the... what little brains I got, got polluted from
all this what’s going on, you know, TV and the whole bit, you know. But I
enjoyed life well, you know. I done what I wanted to do. With little
experience, but I had ambition, and I watched the other people do things, you
know. And I wanted to do the same thing. Even things that I never seen done or
I watched the other people talk about it, you know, and I just could picture it
and I think about it, think about it, you know. When it come down doing it, you
know, I just about know how. It came naturally, you know. And I traveled with
different people, lots of people. That’s where my experience come from.
And I don’t regret anything at all, you know.
Hank Bridgeman:
What was it like when it was
all over for you? Cause I mean, here you were living up here. Things were
pretty quiet. And then all of a sudden this happened. And then they all went
away basically. You know, what was that like?
George Behn:
Well, you kinda... You know, we
had our own way of life, you know, trapping, and, you know, good time. And you
always look forward tomorrow, better tomorrow. Not like it is today, you know.
All these things going on here, you know. With the little money we made, it was
good. But today you make a whole bunch of money and eh, there’s a sad end
down the road, you know, the dollar not worth... And you like to do something.
You gotta have it, you know... no... like paying the rent and vehicles. Present
things, they’re really living but some people, it’s hard. When you
haven’t got a job, well, you know, what happens, you lose your equipment
or whatever you have, you know . A person’s gotta watch himself. But there
was no... I know, it came and gone.
George Behn:
But the highway was still here,
you know. You see different people. And to tell you the truth, when the highway
was going through, all the excitement, you know. The Indian people didn’t
know what it was all about. Maybe few would say... you listen to the radio, you
know... and people talking about wars and stuff, you know. But other than that,
you know, people just... everyday life, you know. But we didn’t realize
how close, you know, the war to us... you know, from the ocean, eh.
Hank Bridgeman:
Well that... You probably
didn’t even know about the war until these guys came up, right?
George Behn:
Yeah right. Other talked about
Hitler and the whole bit, you know. Other than that, we figured the other side
of the world, how are they going to come over here across the water, you know?
But that wasn’t the case. A lot of things happened... When I say
civilization... Civilized people come up here, you know, and here the people,
we’re still living in the bush, you know. We didn’t know all these
things were happening, you know. Some people maybe fly to Edmonton, you know,
for a couple of weeks or so. Fort St. John, Dawson Creek was the closest to us.
But the pioneers, even back them days, you know. I get little bit different
today than it was... before the war and during the war and down and up again,
but... Fort St. John had been a lucky place, you know. They... Always a boom
on, you know. Like eh, during the war, you know all that construction went on.
In the sixties, building that dam there, you know. And the oil activity, was
there too.
Hank Bridgeman:
I’m trying to get a
feeling... I’m trying to get a feeling of the cultural differences, you
know. At that time. At that time. You’re 16, right? Because, you know, you
keep saying eh, they came and they were civilized. My philosophy is the other
way around, right? At that time, they were two different worlds.
George Behn:
That’s right. Like
communicating, like I can talk your language good. I think it’s good. But
prior to my time... Even in my time, you know, when they... the white people
talking over there, they’re talking to... you know.
Hank Bridgeman:
It’s hard to
understand.
George Behn:
Yeah, I can understand it. When
we’re talking our language, they don’t understand.
Hank Bridgeman:
That must have been... Yeah.
How did you get by that?
George Behn:
A lot of it was hand signs, you
know. And eh... I remember my grandfather talked French. Not good, but, you
know, he... Because a lot of the Frenchmen were Metis. They came in the country
from, through the Mackenzie and up the Liard, you know. And eh, especially the
Gardeners, Fred, and you know. And he’s a wonderful man. And they talk
French. Muskeg French, that is. And their children, they... some of them I grew
up with, you know, and they, the same as I was, talking English-wise, you know.
They talked French but, I... I didn’t.
Hank Bridgeman:
So when the Americans
came...
George Behn:
Eh?
Hank Bridgeman:
So when the Americans came. I
mean, you knew some English because...
George Behn:
Oh yeah. It was pretty fair
then. Because, you know, we... they... as you got older, you know, you learn
from the trap... white trappers, and you know, and so it was pretty good. I
remember one time, this... talking about the communication-wise. In the spring
time,
George Behn:
the scouts, brought supplies
down, down the Sikanni, the Old Fort, and on down, eh. And there was four or
five freighters got the scouts lined up there along the shore. And my
grandmother had a night line for fish. So me and my cousin, we went down there,
and these people over here, and we got a couple of fish. We come up the little
trail onto the path that the people travel, and we said, well maybe somebody
will come and take the fish away from us. And then we got on the trail and
here’s this guy coming and he was talking away, you know, and... I
don’t know what he was saying, but I remember to this day, just like he
said it this morning: “Just a minute.” I remember that word well. But
we didn’t know what it meant. We just took off in the bush, and hid our
fish and went home. So that’s that. That was [Lynch Collesen]. A
well-known family, those guys, I know. I get most of them passed on, at the
moment. I understand it’s only one man left out of that family. Yeah,
they... Good trappers, good hunters, you know. I worked for them for many
years. I had lots of experience from them, you know. Tough as a nail. Yeah. I
remember, one guy, I used to work for him, you know, and... We get up for
breakfast at six o’clock, okay. Some guy is still staggering around, you
know. He’ll come in and say “Hey, it’s six o’clock.
You’re still sleeping. How do you expect to get a day’s work
in,” you know. (laughs)
Hank Bridgeman:
So you got good memories of
the whole thing?
George Behn:
Yeah, pretty fair, pretty fair,
you know. Oh, I can just go on and on, you know, and the experiences prior to
that. I start traveling. My dad, he got killed in... on a barge, on [Grizzly]
Lake. He was a pilot on a Hudson Bay, on a boat. He was crushed between two
barges during a storm. And, prior to that, my mother lived here, and they was
far apart all the time, so they decided, you know, you go your way and I go my
way, you know. My dad was gonna take me, and my mother said “no.” So,
during the treaty time, agent came up. He was a JP and a policeman and the
whole bit. That’s how the Indian used to settle their... what they had to
settle. And eh... they had a little trial over me, I guess, a court order or
whatever it was, and my mother got the custody of me. And I just don’t
remember, but that’s, you know, that’s what I was told.
Hank Bridgeman:
How old were you then?
George Behn:
Eh... I don’t know how old
I’d be. I don’t remember anything, you know, and... but I did see my
father a couple of years after that, just like a dream to me, you know, seeing
him, eh. And my mother died in 1935. I was living with my grandparents and...
they were old too, you know. And I started on a trail when I was 10 years
old... dog team, you know, and... I was traveling with a fur trader, yeah, I
was 10 years old. I had my little old dog team, and... I really enjoyed it, but
only part I didn’t like, was get up five o’clock in the morning.
Hank Bridgeman:
I think we got it.
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